Transcript Panel: Identity in dgov @dgov node at web3 2019

Disclaimer: just the quick transcript from the talk. Sorry for errors. Probably not all is clear – treat that as the raw material for finding insights or continuing the conversation.

Aren’t we all completely aligned. Is this something we should challenge at all (importance of self sovereign identity)? Would be great to know your major learnings, 1 thing that struck you in relation to identity.

Actually many challenges. First is until now SSID doesn’t exist. How the society will use that. What are the incentives to start using it by people. Useless without the applications. First challenge is to know what applications will bring SSID to mainstream. Of course there’s a lot of technical challenges as well.

Agree. It’s not existent, for reasons – as I need interoperability between providers and such scheme doesn’t exist yet. There’s the specification that can revolve to the standard. But we need to push hard for it to become a reality. The whole topic of privacy – can we use zero knowledge proof for that. Don’t understand, every time we come closer, but we need to be humble – there’s a lot of work. We need to work together as a community, only way to do it.

Coming from a startup experience – look for the market. Web3 is a user-driven field. 90% of population don’t think about that. Will it come through market or enterprises. In latter case there could be a strong resistance if it remos power.

Usability and key management is hard. To make user understand how this power works. Here lot’s of people would like to have it. We have DAOs, KYC etc use cases. Managing the assets is the challenge.

Which world are we living currently. Current system owns users completely. Many of us have whatsapp etc. We envision the future where we can get that power back. Don’t see we can have the same service models as others with SSID. Interested and critical if this is a strong alternative to what we have today.

Whether is it the user-driven movement is interesting. As opposed to convenience – it’s a tough one to break. What we should discuss – interoperability aspect. Is directly linked to the critical mass. This whole interface make people understand the relevance behind them. It’s not just a cliche, but something of value. Would be interested about talking the collaboration aspect before, to drive momentum for the platforms. What keeps you from doing stuff together more frequently?

I want SSID to happen, whether from us or not. It’s what society needs. Collaboration should be easy. My fear is more about – we need to understand the concept better before standardization. How people would use it, the technology underneath. Blockchain is an important tech. The last year there was a more than 100 papers around improving Zero Knowledge. Zero knowledge is really important for privacy and scalability. It’s emerging, coming from academics. Going to some standardization is important, there’s some effort going that way, but it can be early to have standards.

It would help if community will have real implementations. So orgs who want to use it can trust it. Now they’re asking. If you have now the project you’re working now and want to select a solution you’re getting stuck. There’s a lot of work going on. There’s a SSID foundation where we come together and discuss how to get to the needed state. The tricky part… we’re humans stuck in concepts. When you talk to investors – they ask for the business model. That drives people to connect that to identity. We need 1 common layer operating free. We need to agree on (and will take a lot of time), but without that we won’t be successful as humanity. Now many people contribute to that.

As important as interoperability is, it’s boring. What the SSID is, e.g. in terms of taxation, security etc. Current identity is tied to borders for example – still can’t avoid that. So SSID isn’t helping here.

It’s about establishing trust in digital and real forms. If you don’t have a tool for reputation, anything I can produce and share with the person i didn’t know – that’s the use case. How we enable trust in such a way. I don’t really have anything besides people who know me and have a knowledge about me.

Every system needs own security/permissions. There’re various ways. One of the key questions – how are we represented in the internet, how do you know it’s not a bot. The proof of being human is the essence. In the society – to participate in governance.

There’s a major difference – in traditional systems you need a certification from a big and thus expensive authority. Here it’s easier, we don’t need to trust those institutions. Those claims are the reputation. If you don’t have info about the identity it means nothing. For the releasing the data – ZK becomes important. You can reveal you belong to the city, without revealing your name. Huge database of claims between identities. How we can prove just releasing the specific information. This makes this tech so powerful.

We’re in the critical time for the interoperability. Microsoft bought github and we need to be realistic about where we are. How much are we really working with each other. There’s only few projects using your tech. Where are we on that?

Identity has network effects. Every projects that uses Jolocom can trust other projects and improve the network. What is the model, how can we insure we’ll be becoming interoperable. Ideally you can switch at any moment. If you don’t like Yahoo – go to Gmail. Designs from the beginning should be interoperable. That’s why Microsoft can be a beneficial partner while we make it right.

For me there’s at least where it should be more defined. Of course it’s protocol (not the open source software). 2 places: data structures (format of attestation, blockchain , who are attestation facilities). Are you in condition to propose a standard? no. It’s technical, it should be ZK compatible. Now there’s no single function that’s optimal and the right one. We can start with one.

The questions can be – why we don’t work with existent projects and iterate on the standard. How we can accelerate the progress without starting with something, We don’t use the potential here enough.

Was said earlier – focus on the target. We produce half-baked stuff and try to move forward with it. We tried to integrate uport in some solutions, but the amount of education it took on the user side… Maybe need to agree what is the target for the next year.

Agree. We’re talking about black and white – compatible or not. We already have something in common. Now we work on how we send messages, communication thing. My argument is – ZK is interesting, but you still need to let know the something (like that’s the driver license). Want at least 5 attestation to choose what i’m sharing. Maybe we can build the layers we all are ok with.

Building in the way that reduces friction is crucial. Where we can win now. Don’t think we can convince people with data security, in Germany maybe, but in most countries people don’t care.

We work a lot on the awareness, voluntary, on top of the regular work. There’s a ton of passionate people. We need many many more, asking critical questions and pushing us. Broad conversation and process. If we talk about the new technology better look at which phase are we currently. If we want to achieve the single layer – what is the right time for that. With stability and community consent. It’s super necessary to have many projects experimenting, cause it allows the innovation. We have the transparency and open source attitude here.

Counter perspective – it’s the cold cash. If you can create the solid income string it will influence more. Facebook in Indonesia is just fine. Either identity will become important because of violence. Or the financial incentive.

We’re not looking in the right way with this innovation. Is the person is fine – he doesn’t need to change. In the places where people can get killed – it can be interesting, like in Honk Kong. We cant to give power back to you. Maybe we need to be more creative about bringing it to the places where they really need it. We have cryptocurrencies, DAOs can be institutions.

If I follow SSID should create me a fake identity and allow missing the punishment. Isn’t that a risk?

Tech can’t and shouldn’t prevent such intentions - it’s another level. The pure attempt – it’s not what we need to do.

Jews we killed some time ago cause they were in registries.

The freedom to decide who i am and tell you is important. That’s super human interpersonal relationships.

Maybe the credential is trusted as much as the issuer is trusted. You can have self issued credential, but the bank won’t trust that. The system is design to protect the trust in the different context.

Very different information – if it’s transferred it’s transferred. another thing is proof, you can’t use it to the third party. It’s important to understand.

What is the community we’re talking about? crypto or identity systems? Agree about the standards. In this space a lot of is happening everyday. Not enough organizations use standards.

We need to proof the people on our platform – where i can get the closest to that.